The Gorgias by Plato. - HTML preview

118

Platos Gorgias

CALLICLES: I do not understand what you are saying.

CALLICLES: Very true.

GORGIAS: Nay, Callicles, answer, if only for our sakes;

SOCRATES: Then he ceases from pain and pleasure at we should like to hear the argument out.

the same moment?

CALLICLES: Yes, Gorgias, but I must complain of the CALLICLES: Yes.

habitual trifling of Socrates; he is always arguing about little and unworthy questions.

SOCRATES: But he does not cease from good and evil at the same moment, as you have admitted: do you still ad-GORGIAS: What matter? Your reputation, Callicles, is not here to what you said?

at stake. Let Socrates argue in his own fashion.

CALLICLES: Yes, I do; but what is the inference?

CALLICLES: Well, then, Socrates, you shall ask these little peddling questions, since Gorgias wishes to have them.

SOCRATES: Why, my friend, the inference is that the good is not the same as the pleasant, or the evil the same as the SOCRATES: I envy you, Callicles, for having been initi-painful; there is a cessation of pleasure and pain at the same ated into the great mysteries before you were initiated into moment; but not of good and evil, for they are different.

the lesser. I thought that this was not allowable. But to re-How then can pleasure be the same as good, or pain as turn to our argument:Does not a man cease from thirst-evil? And I would have you look at the matter in another ing and from the pleasure of drinking at the same moment?

light, which could hardly, I think, have been considered by you when you identified them: Are not the good good be-CALLICLES: True.

cause they have good present with them, as the beautiful are those who have beauty present with them?

SOCRATES: And if he is hungry, or has any other desire, does he not cease from the desire and the pleasure at the CALLICLES: Yes.

same moment?

SOCRATES: And do you call the fools and cowards good 119

Platos Gorgias

men? For you were saying just now that the courageous SOCRATES: Enough: And did you ever see a coward in and the wise are the goodwould you not say so?

battle?

CALLICLES: Certainly.

CALLICLES: To be sure.

SOCRATES: And did you never see a foolish child rejoicing?

SOCRATES: And which rejoiced most at the departure of the enemy, the coward or the brave?

CALLICLES: Yes, I have.

CALLICLES: I should say most of both; or at any rate, SOCRATES: And a foolish man too?

they rejoiced about equally.

CALLICLES: Yes, certainly; but what is your drift?

SOCRATES: No matter; then the cowards, and not only the brave, rejoice?

SOCRATES: Nothing particular, if you will only answer.

CALLICLES: Greatly.

CALLICLES: Yes, I have.

SOCRATES: And the foolish; so it would seem?

SOCRATES: And did you ever see a sensible man rejoicing or sorrowing?

CALLICLES: Yes.

CALLICLES: Yes.

SOCRATES: And are only the cowards pained at the approach of their enemies, or are the brave also pained?

SOCRATES: Which rejoice and sorrow mostthe wise or the foolish?

CALLICLES: Both are pained.

CALLICLES: They are much upon a par, I think, in that SOCRATES: And are they equally pained?

respect.